Y'know, it'd be good if somebody submitted an article to the Upsideclone (creative writing. Submissions to, because then I'd get to test the sparkly new anonymous voting system I just wrote.

And speaking of which I've just re-read Kevan's recent Upsideclone, particularly the line "Assemble a large enough community, and watch the emergence of the blindly, destructively selfish; enough of them to systematically burn that community's bus-stops to the ground." And I wonder-- what size does a community have to reach before it can start spawning other communities, where the value spread is so large that at the edges it becomes destructive to the source? And do members of the community have to discover the values for themselves, because the reason for these values cannot be communicated because of the complexity exchange limit? And if we understood this better, if we applied some knowledge of game design to (say) local government, to make each level involving and exciting, could we get more people involved, being stakeholders?

And what is this crazy value "involvement" that I think is such a good thing? Fucking sustaining-society meme isn't it. I'm having my objectivity leeched away by ten thousand years of human civilisation. I don't stand a chance.